Jimbos Audio ramblings

[brian2957]

Glad you enjoyed your friends visit James. I had a feeling the subject of significantly more room treatment wolud have come up. I also had a feeling that the sofa would make a return between the speakers because I thought removing it would have 'hardened' the sound. How did you remove the electrical noise from the system BTW?
Great post and great photo as ever mate

[Macca]

We listened to my ultra budget digital set up first and to be honest it sounded ok on well mastered material but it was improved significantly once we removed a whole load of electrical noise from the system. I did know that any spurious electrical noise was damaging to digital audio and it is something a lot of manufacturers have been investigating and combating over the last few years. Believe me do anything you can to remove as much of this from your digital system as possible and you will be amazed.

what did this involve? I've seen plenty of foo solutions to what is usually a non-existent problem. Is this something different?

[Jimbo]

I was using a linear PSU but no galvanic isolation anywhere in the rest of the digital set up. It was all on the floor near the mains plugs so was probably being bombarded with electrical noise. The device, that unfortunately I cannot mention, simply took away a huge amount of mains noise and probably RF noise. The shocking difference has made me now keen to eliminate as much electrical noise getting into my digital set up. I know there are some cheap and very expensive options but I think they should definitely be considered.

Noise pollution seems to be a constant issue with digital audio especially when using separate DAC, DDC and server etc hooked up with a variety of cables and different connectors. I thought I understood trying to eliminate jitter and electrical noise within the digital chain of equipment but did not appreciate just how much the delicate digital signals and equipment can be affected by external digital noise. I would say even trying to use the best possible set ups for digital playback even with galvanic isolation you will not be immune to external digital noise and addressing this can have profound and huge effects on the performance and SQ of your digital system.

A pic of my ultra budget digital set up. Top of the pile Justboom DAC which uses a Burr Brown chip, next down Douk Audio DDC reclocker and At bottom Chinese Linear PSU. These are all hooked up to a MacBook Air using Audirvana.

AA05EDA3-3BF6-4B86-BAC5-AA07DE4BE9D5 by , on Flickr

[Macca]

Have to say I have not personally found that to be the case at all but my digital set up is very simple, just a CD transport into a DAC, signal cables are routed away from power cables and none of the boxes are sited close to the mains outlets or the power strip.

I would just be very wary of anyone claiming to have magic solutions to things like jitter and noise, there are a lot of con-men operating in this area of hi-fi (although I'm sure some of them do genuinely believe in their products). If they can't offer hard evidence that it does something then it almost certainly doesn't do anything beyond a placebo effect.

Hans Beekhuyzen in particular is to be avoided, almost everything he says about digital audio is factually incorrect.

[Jimbo]

Have to say I have not personally found that to be the case at all but my digital set up is very simple, just a CD transport into a DAC, signal cables are routed away from power cables and none of the boxes are sited close to the mains outlets or the power strip.

I would just be very wary of anyone claiming to have magic solutions to things like jitter and noise, there are a lot of con-men operating in this area of hi-fi (although I'm sure some of them do genuinely believe in their products). If they can't offer hard evidence that it does something then it almost certainly doesn't do anything beyond a placebo effect.

Hans Beekhuyzen in particular is to be avoided, almost everything he says about digital audio is factually incorrect.

My only absolute evaluation and recommendation regarding anything I use or have discovered is through direct use in my system and my own subjective listening.

As you know Martin the net is awash with theories, "facts" and recommendations of equipment based on measurements, technical abilities or simply other peoples listening experience with a piece of kit in their system and audio environment. This maybe a good start for many of us but I always reserve judgement until I get whatever piece of kit I use and it has been hooked up to my system.

FWIW I found my digital system improved with each step I have taken.

1. A move from CD to FBA.
2. Use of Audirvana on a laptop using SSD.
3. Bypassing laptop DAC to then use off board DAC.
4. Reclock digital data with DDC before it gets to DAC.
5. Use of Linear PSU to power both DAC and DDC.

Each step of the way was marked with an improvement in SQ. Of course it could all be in my imagination

I have pondered "better" DACs , better cables etc but I would soon run very quickly run into the law of diminishing returns and in fact almost any change /addition would cost more than the whole of my digital set up. If I were seriously thinking that digital would become a significant day to day part of my system I may considerer other options but to be honest I have heard mega bucks gear and for me although technically they are fantastic and measure superbly they still sound err...digital.

[Macca]

My only absolute evaluation and recommendation regarding anything I use or have discovered is through direct use in my system and my own subjective listening.

As you know Martin the net is awash with theories, "facts" and recommendations of equipment based on measurements, technical abilities or simply other peoples listening experience with a piece of kit in their system and audio environment. This maybe a good start for many of us but I always reserve judgement until I get whatever piece of kit I use and it has been hooked up to my system.

FWIW I found my digital system improved with each step I have taken.

1. A move from CD to FBA.
2. Use of Audirvana on a laptop using SSD.
3. Bypassing laptop DAC to then use off board DAC.
4. Reclock digital data with DDC before it gets to DAC.
5. Use of Linear PSU to power both DAC and DDC.

Each step of the way was marked with an improvement in SQ. Of course it could all be in my imagination

I have pondered "better" DACs , better cables etc but I would soon run very quickly run into the law of diminishing returns and in fact almost any change /addition would cost more than the whole of my digital set up. If I were seriously thinking that digital would become a significant day to day part of my system I may considerer other options but to be honest I have heard mega bucks gear and for me although technically they are fantastic and measure superbly they still sound err...digital.

well it is true we can never escape our own subjective experience no matter what the fact of the matter is

I had a valve/vinyl/horn fanatic here a few months back, not someone I have ever met before. His system and mine are diametrically opposed in every respect.

His comment on my system was 'It sounds so refined!' No mention of it sounding 'digital'.

Reclocking boxes are an odd one since the DAC (unless it is quite an old design) will just reclock the signal again so it's hard to see what the benefit can be.

Anyway, sorry, please carry on I won't interrupt again.

[Jimbo]

well it is true we can never escape our own subjective experience no matter what the fact of the matter is

I had a valve/vinyl/horn fanatic here a few months back, not someone I have ever met before. His system and mine are diametrically opposed in every respect.

His comment on my system was 'It sounds so refined!' No mention of it sounding 'digital'.

Reclocking boxes are an odd one since the DAC (unless it is quite an old design) will just reclock the signal again so it's hard to see what the benefit can be.

Anyway, sorry, please carry on I won't interrupt again.

Not at all Martin, that's the nature of a forum, all opinions are valid. I think everything in audio should be questioned especially when your spending cold hard cash!

The reclocker just ensures the package of bits from the server are clocked very precisely before getting to the DAC who's clock may not be up to much. In other words the clocker has a better clock than the DAC so it does not have to work too hard once the clocked package arrives at its door.

Translating this into a listening experience of course is subjective but it definitely sounds smoother with a better soundstage and better instrument separation/imaging with the DDC in place. I am in the great position in that my DAC is very responsive to anything that can help it out so the clocker and LPS definitely allow it to perform at a higher level than on its own.

If you have more expensive digital gear with better more accurate clocks and built in LPS PSU and galvanic isolation etc then they should perform better and maybe sound better. I don't know?

[Jimbo]

If anyone is interested in current prices for my digital set up?

Justboom DAC is £35 + case
Duok audio DDC is about £60
BRZHifi LPS can be had for £45 off aliexpress

Silly money compared to almost any other digital system on the market.

BUT you do need a laptop which I use as a server for file and metadata storage.

Cables were all free apart from one power cable which was £15. I have a feeling my USB cable is not up to much so if anyone can suggest a good USB-C - USB-B cable for connecting my laptop to DDC I would be grateful.

[Macca]

If you have more expensive digital gear with better more accurate clocks and built in LPS PSU and galvanic isolation etc then they should perform better and maybe sound better. I don't know?

Nope, Topping E30 £140 new powered by a mobile phone charger. - honestly though listening right now and really it is flawless as far as I can tell. If I thought I could do better then I would. You will have to come over for a listen sometime, see if it sounds digital to you, and if so, point out to me the specifics of that.

Maybe I just have cloth ears or am undiscriminating - I don't think so but obviously I can't be certain about that.

[Jimbo]

Nice AK4493 chip in that E30 which I think was developed to give a type of R2R sound and I think it uses the same XU208 XMOS USB chip that I use in the Duok DDC. It gets great reviews and I have no doubt it sounds great maybe even better with an LPS.

I should really make an effort and pop up to you and bring my digital set up and we could have a fun bake-off and you can get to try an LPS and DDC hooked put to your DAC and maybe hear the difference.

I will get in touch soon Martin and maybe we can arrange a date?